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Historic dialogue brings Catholics, Anabaptists together

A joint communique from Mennonite World Conference and the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity.

STRASBOURG/VATICAN CITY ÑFor the first time, Mennonites and Catholic theologians met in international dialogue, Oct.14-18, to discuss the reasons for the centuries-long separation between the two churches, starting in the 16th century. The meeting took place in Strasbourg, France.

This international consultation was sponsored by the Mennonite World Conference (Strasbourg) and the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity (Vatican City). Dr. Helmut Harder (Winnipeg) and Bishop Joseph Martino (Philadelphia) were co-chairman. Dr. Larry Miller (Strasbourg) and Monsignor John A. Radano (Rome) served as co-secretaries.

The purpose of the consultation was to promote better understanding of positions about Christian faith held on each side and to contribute to overcoming prejudices that have long existed between Mennonites and Catholics. In this meeting, two sets of papers were presented. The first consisted of a profile by each church describing for the other Òwho we are.Ó The Mennonite profile was given by Dr. Howard J. Loewen (Fresno.) and the Catholic profile by Rev. James Puglisi, SA (Rome/USA). The second set of papers focused on historical questions helping to shed light on the reactions to each other in the 16th century. Dr. Peter Nissen (Nijmegen, The Netherlands) spoke on ÒThe Catholic Response to the Anabaptist Movement in the Sixteenth CenturyÓ and Dr. Neal Blough (France) on ÒAnabaptist Images of Roman Catholics during the Sixteenth Century.Ó

The various presentations and the discussion of issues was aimed at contributing towards a healing of memories between the two churches. On one afternoon, the consultation participants visited a village outside of Strasbourg, where they were welcomed to a Mennonite church by its elder, Andre Nussbaumer, and were addressed by a Catholic sociologist of religion, Dr. Jean Seguy, on the history of Anabaptist- Mennonite and Catholic relations in France. At lunch on Oct. 15, Dr. Marc Lienhard, Lutheran theologian, shared his insights on religious dissidents in 16th century Strasbourg. Sunday morning, members of both delegations attended services at the Strasbourg Mennonite Church.

Other participants on the Mennonite side were Dr. Mario Higueros (Guatemala), Dr. Nzash Lumeya (Congo), Rev. Andrea Lange (Germany). Other Roman Catholics were Monsignor John Mutiso-Mbinda (Kenya/Rome) and Dr. Back (England/Rome).

It is anticipated that the dialogue will continue in 1999.

Larry Miller is executive director of Mennonite World Conference, based in Strasbourg, France, a city historically important in the Anabaptist movement. He reflects on some questions posed to him by Menn-onite journalist Phyllis Good regarding the Catholic-Mennonite dialogue.
(Please note: This interview, recorded by MWC for its own use, has kindly been made available by Larry Miller for Patchwork and is not for publication beyond this newsletter. Thanks to Paulus Widjaja for his request on our behalf!)

1. Why did this conversation happen? Mennonites are such a small group; why did the Vatican make this effort? Or did Mennonites do something to initiate it?

   Larry: I like to think that the conversation is happening because God wants it to! Of course, one can give a more ÒsociologicalÓ answer as well. Leaders of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity participate in the annual meetings of leaders of Christian World Communions, as do I, representing Mennonite World Conference. In that context, we have had friendly chatsÑat lunch and otherwiseÑfor the past 6 or 7 years, about Catholics and Mennonites, about our relations historically and today in various parts of the world, about points of divergences, about areas in which we may have something to learn from each other. When MWC invited many Christian World Communions to send an observer to our world assembly in Calcutta, the Pontifical Council was one of the few which actually sent a representativeÑand he stayed the entire week with us. That representative carried a letter from Cardinal Cassidy, head of the Pontifical Council, which expressed the Ponticial Council's Òsincere hope that there will be other contacts between the Mennonite World Conference and the Catholic Church.Ó This expression of desire for dialogue was later accepted by the MWC executive committee. That's the immediate background to the meeting in Strasbourg.

   But why did the Vatican make this effort with a group as small as the Mennonites? That question is one of the most frequent ones I am asked in relation to the conversations. Why did the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity send someone to Calcutta and why were they ready to send a delegation to Strasbourg (where MWC offices are located)?

   Larry: I think the fundamental reason is that the Catholic Church cares theologically and deeply about the unity of the church. The leaders of the Pontifical Council really believe that it is the will of Christ that his disciples seek better relations, that division among Christians is a stumbling block to the world. For someone with those theological convictions, the size of the other Christian group is not a primary issue. As I represent Mennonites to leaders of other world federations of churches, some demonstrate little interest in conversation with us because we seem to small to deserve more than a footnote in church history. But that is not the point of view of these Catholic leaders. The problem for them is division in the body of Christ, not the size of any one of its members.

2. Where were the conversations held? (In Strasbourg, yes, but what kind of setting?)

   Larry: They were held in the center where MWC's offices are locatedÑour conversation partners cared enough about the conversation to come to our Òturf.Ó

3. What sorts of persons spoke on our behalf, and why were they chosen?

   Larry: The people who compose the MWC delegation are significant leaders and teachers in MWC members churches. Each was chosen because each has demonstrated strong commitment both to historic Mennonite convictions and to conversation with other Christians. In addition, each one brings a particular gift, perspective or training to the table. For example, the subject of the first conversation was primarily historyÑCatholic and Anabaptist relations at the beginning of the Anabaptist movementÑso we needed a Mennonite historian of early Anabaptism (Neal Blough) in the delegation. Other example: One place where Mennonite and Catholic relations are often difficult today is Latin America, so it seemed vital to appoint a Latin America Mennonite leader (Mario Higueros) to the team.

4. Who were the participants from the R.C. Church, and why were they chosen, do you suppose? Was theirs a globally representative group? At what level within the Vatican did this exchange happen?

   Larry: The Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity is the highest body in the Catholic Church which carries responsibility for relations with other churches. Thus, whenever the Catholic Church enters into official dialogue with other churches, it does so through this Pontifical Council. (For example, the Council has had or currently has official dialogue with the Lutheran World Federation, the World Methodist Council, the Baptist World Alliance, the World Evangelical Fellowship, the World Council of Churches, Orthodox churches, Pentecostal churches, and others.) Final reports from official dialogues are submitted for review by the Pontifical Council to those whose task it is to oversee Catholic doctrine and, ultimately, to the Pope. Finally, assuming approval from all quarters, final reports are normally sent to all bishops around the world.

   The auxiliary bishop of Philadelphia, Bishop Joseph Martino, chairs the Catholic delegation. He is apparently the only bishop in the USA who also serves as a local (Philadephia diocese) ecumenical officer; he is also one of few who lives near a substantial Mennonite community. (Significantly, Bishop Martino prepared himself for the Strasbourg conversation in part by visiting leaders of the Franconia Mennonite Conference.) Monsignor John Radano serves as the main organizer of the dialogue on behalf of the Pontifical Council. ... Monsignor John Mutiso-Mbinda, another Pontifical Council staff member, represented the Council at India 1997. Dr. Peter Nissen is a lay Catholic, on the team as the Catholic historian. He is professor of church history in the University of Njmegen (Netherlands), wrote a doctoral thesis on the Catholic-Anabaptist conflict in the 16th century and continues to follow Anabaptist research closely (and sympathetically). The other two Catholic theologians represent orders or movements within the Catholic Church which seem to have some affinity with or at least openness to Anabaptist-Mennonite perspectives. ... In other words, the Catholic delegation was composed of people who came sympathetically, inclined to cooperation, not conflict.

   The Catholic group was less globally representative than was the Mennonite group but, given Catholic structures, able to speak with more representative authority than Mennonites probably can.

5. Characterize the conversations. Formal? Abstractly theological? Confessional (on both sides)?

   Larry: The conversations were the sort of conversations you have when sitting around the table with friendly people of conviction who are learning to know one another. They were mutually respectful, simply-spoken, honest, occasionally confrontational, sometimes moving. Bishop Martino expressed his great sorrow as we listened to the historians tell us about the role of the Catholic Church in delivering Anabaptist Christians to the executioner, or as we together read stories in the Martyrs Mirror which witness to the deep faith of those same women and men. I felt uneasy when we together read Anabaptist texts full of violent language against the Catholic Church. I found myself thinking that our occasional verbal violence was understandable in 16th century context, obviously not at all the same violence as executing someone, but perhaps still some distance from the model offered by Jesus Christ for situations of the sort: ÒHe was insulted and did not retaliate with insults; when he was tortured he made no threats but he put his trust in the righteous judge.Ó (1 Peter 2:23).

6. What did you learn?

   Larry: I learned that the conversation has only begun, that three days of conversation is barely the first sentence of what Catholics and Mennonites might need and want to say to each other in the years ahead, both in a more official international dialogue like the one started in Strasbourg and in local face-to-face exchanges in many settings around the world.

   I learned that some of the core theological divergences of the 16th century are still among the main points of divide. I learned that both Mennonites and Catholics find themselves in a whole new world today, not only because the world around us has changed but also because both churches have changed, not least as a result of mission and the shifting center of gravityÑto Africa, Asia and Latin America.

   I learned also that the very fact of the meeting in Strasbourg manifests a significant official position of the Catholic Church in respect to Mennonite and related churches. When some members of the MWC delegation reported that Anabaptist-Mennonites in various parts of the world are sometimes viewed and treated as a ÒsectÓ by other Christians, Pontifical Council representatives underlined the Council's policy to not enter into conversation with a group considered by the Catholic Church to be a sect; official Pontifical Council dialogue takes place only with other Christian churches.

7. What do you think they learned?

   Larry: I think they, too, learned that the conversation has just began and that it is worth pursuing. Their expressed hopeÑshared by the Mennonite delegationÑis that we can have four or five years of annual exchange which contribute something to the Òhealing of memoriesÓ transmitted from the 16th century onwards, contribute also to a fair understanding of one another today, and thus open wider the doors of continuing fraternal address and mutual learning. All of this would lead to the production of a joint Mennonite-Catholic report which would be distributed to all Catholic bishops worldwide for use in their churches as well as made available to MWC member churches.

8. What changed as a result of the conversations?

   Larry: Can three days of conversation between 13 people effect change between two world churches whose relationship is rooted in ancient conflict and marked by continuing hostility or ignorance? God's miracles sometimes do take place on the third day but often need a little more time. What is objectively new is the stated commitment on the part of he Catholic Church to sustained conversation with Mennonite World Conference (as a representative of Anabaptist-Mennnonite churches). I believe MWC is ready to make a similar commitment. But we will want to proceed in a way which honors the Anabaptist-Mennonite conviction that fraternal address, just like all church activities, involves as broad a participation of the membership as possible.

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